July 14, 2023

You know when people are asked about what their biggest fear is, a lot of the answers are what you’d expect – fear of heights, fear of spiders, and so forth. Humans are afraid of a lot of things.

But when people are asked what their single BIGGEST fear is – the big one that usually comes out as number one is fear of public speaking. For a lot of people it even ranks higher than their fear of death.

When Jerry Seinfeld heard about that, he correctly observed that that means if that person is at a funeral, they’d rather be the dead person in the casket than the one giving the eulogy.

But there are some situations where we have to speak in public – and one of those is in a courtroom.

For me, that would be the worst place to be nervous about speaking. When I’m in an uncomfortable situation, I’ll usually try to use humor to sort of ease the tension. But when you’re on the witness stand answering questions, with a judge and a whole room full of people watching you, that’s not really the time for a stand-up routine.

My guest today is Collier, and he knows all about that situation. He was only 12 years old when he had to testify at a murder trial, to talk about what happened at his house one night.

And the person he was testifying against was his own father.

Collier’s YouTube:

Collier’s links:

Collier’s website:





Collier’s TEDx Talk:

Full show notes and pictures for this episode are here:


Graphics for this episode by Bob Bretz. Transcription was done by James Lai.

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